Season 8, Episode 4: Optimizing Long-term Athletic Development with Robert Yang

Evelyne Lambrecht: I’m really looking forward to our conversation today. In this episode, we’ll explore the intersection of sports performance and functional nutrition when it comes to both elite and developing athletes. If you have kids, if you work with parents, and obviously everyone does, this information is going to be so valuable. We’ll also talk about labs that Robert uses with athletes pre- and post-workout nutrition, traumatic brain injuries and much more.

So Robert, what is lighting you up this week?

Robert Yang: Well, always reading research, being a little bit of a nerd. But I’m actually working on my second book. And, it’s going to be overall in terms of that gut microbiome and basically, maybe the running title, something to do with bloat, those kinds of things. I get quite a few clients, the elite athletes too, general population where they’re really just struggling with, digestive issues. And so, I really want to encompass it from a multifactorial point of view, from not just what you’re eating and supplements, but things like breathing and your lifestyle and even your dining experience. Those kinds of things all matter in the context of healing someone’s gut.

Evelyne Lambrecht: I love that that’s super exciting. And there’s so much new research every single day. I’m always saving articles to read later. And don’t always read them later. But that’s very exciting and good luck with your book. I’m looking forward to that.

Robert Yang: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Evelyne Lambrecht: In addition to what I mentioned about Robert before, he’s an internationally sought after presenter on a variety of topics on nutrition, gut health, and performance enhancement. He’s an advisory board member for Titleist Performance Institute, the National Pitching Association, and the USDA’s US National Development Program, where he’s also the team nutritionist. He consults with elite professional athletes from the XGames, NFL, NHL, MLB, AVP, PGA, LPGA and European Tour. It’s a lot of acronyms.

What a resume Robert! Can you share more about your journey? How did you get into sports and performance nutrition and get to work with such elite associations and athletes?

Robert Yang: I came out of school and all throughout my career at university, I was in fitness and health and fitness. Just because that was my sort of own itch. But I also started to work with different athletes when I was in college, and once I graduated, I thought, okay, all I want to do with is just work with elite athletes. Professional athletes. But of course, as I got into the industry, I got everything other than a professional athlete, general population.

And I took this really route of doing a lot of corrective exercise early in my career. And so basically what that entailed is working with people and managing spinal pathologies like derangement, spinal stenosis. Those kinds of injuries. Frozen shoulder. And in the meantime, I was always advising and recommending nutritional changes and supplementation to deal with, the pain or inflammation.

And so, it sort of depends upon now in my career what hat I’m wearing, so to speak. So sometimes an athlete will get my name, and I’m just strictly the nutritionist. So they have their team of a golf coach and a strength and conditioning person and massage therapist, mental coach, and then other times I have the strength coach hat, so I’m doing that. But I’m also in charge of their nutrition and supplementation and doing lab work ups on them to really optimize their recovery and managing inflammation and those types of issues.

So it really depends upon where I’m at. But, I do enjoy both aspects of things doing the nutrition part of it, but also strength and conditioning. And so I see both sides of it. So I’m not just looking at it from the outside going, oh, well, that particular athlete is doing Olympic lifting, or they’re doing endurance training. Like I basically know the ins and outs of it and what kind of training effect that they might be seeking, depending on where they are in their periodization of their program.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Very cool. Thank you. I want to actually dive into the juiciest part of the conversation first, and this is the reason that I really wanted to interview you on the podcast.

So we had a meeting a few months ago with my manager, Heather, because we’re in San Diego, and we were talking about her kids sports, and you shared some really interesting tidbits with us regarding long term athletic development. And I just thought, okay, everybody needs to hear this information. So can you tell us more about what this means? What’s the big picture that you want parents and coaches and healthcare practitioners to understand about this?

Robert Yang: So the long-term athletic development, LTAD, really is based upon inspired Istvan Balyi’s works. So he’s one of the main sports scientists up in Canada. And they have a really excellent program. And so they have sort of stages of their training. And really, the crux of their program is developing the training program depending on the athlete’s needs on their stage of development. So, I think I remember from our conversation, that we had a while back with Heather, I believe her daughter was playing soccer. So, of course, if you are in the UK, overseas? Yes, we’re talking football. I always correct myself because when I’m teaching internationally, people are like Rob, my doctor. Yes, yes, I know I have to change my brain thought process.

So football and with young athletes, they are constantly going through changes. So physically, on a structural level, on the musculoskeletal side of things because there are growing, but they can be going through hormonal changes. And in terms of the long term athletic development, I think the easiest way that I can try to convey this is that my youngest son, he was surfing for the national team for U18. And so, one of the things that you always have to look at when you’re looking at junior athletes is their chronological age, but also their biological age.

And so if I use my son an example, he was U18. So there were three surfers representing the US and El Salvador, and he was one on the West coast. And then there was his team on the East coast. Now they’re both 18. But the kid from Florida, from the East Coast, he was six three, about 180 pounds. Whereas my son was probably at that time five four maybe, and maybe 120 pounds soaking wet with a wetsuit. So you can imagine there’s this huge discrepancy in terms of the biological age, because, I mean, this kid had a full-grown beard and everything and, Kai was just he just, a late bloomer, so to speak, on the physical side of things. So in that context, you cannot train these kids the same, even though they’re the same chronological age. And so really, you’re looking at the needs of that particular young player, whether they’re female and or a male. And one of the things that you’re looking at is their growth spurts. So that’s what we call peak height velocity. And typically on average, most kids go through two growth spurts. So a female, a girl would probably go through earlier than it than a boy maybe 6 to 9 years old. And then they go through a second growth spurt later. And so you want to pay attention to those things. So that’s one of the things that I have a lot of my parents do is just every day, like, you can pick end of the month or just the first day of every month, just go back to your daughter or your son and you’ll see a trend. And you classically hear this. Oh my gosh, Tommy came back after summer. He looks like he grew six inches. And literally they have. So their body is transforming almost on a daily basis. So you have to account for that when it comes to their training programs.

Evelyne Lambrecht: So tell me a little bit more about during a growth spurt, you’re training your athletes differently, right? Can you expand on what that means in practical terms?

Robert Yang:So, I alluded to the fact that you want to you measure the height of your kids as you’re growing, so you’ll know when they’re going through a growth spurt. And so if we give that sort of example of Tommy, who grows six inches in three months over summer, there’s a drastic change. So their bone turnover is going like crazy.

So, for example, if I for whatever reason, would do blood work at a young junior, sometimes people will freak out because their alkaline phosphatase will be 350. Well, if it’s an adult, obviously we’re going, okay, what’s going on? Maybe there’s some type of bone cancer or something of going on. But for a young kid, they’re just remodeling is just going at basically a very, very fast pace because they’re growing. And so their bones are growing.

So if you think about a guitar string that you string taut, they’re basically they’re connective tissue. So they’re tendons, they’re ligaments, they’re musculoskeletal structures. They’re being run taut. So in many cases as they’re going through growth spurts, muscles, yes, they are changing. But really there’s a concept in strength conditioning. We say muscles are stupid, in a sense. Or on different aspects of whatever avenue of health and fitness you’re involved in.

And the reason why we say that is because the nervous system is what controls the muscles. And so because these kids are going through just a rapid change in their musculoskeletal structures, you want to be able to just access and train that nervous system as much as you can. So some of my colleagues will just say, oh, when they’re growing fast, train them fast. So that’s not the appropriate time to load them with heavy weight or anything like that. Because they’re physically and hormonally they’re just not ready for that because they’re going through different phases. But their bones and ligaments attenders are changing.

And so that’s where you hear about, oh, you know, Mikey, he went through this growth phase, and it’s like he’s having an out-of-body experience. And that’s somewhat what they’re experiencing because at that time they are growing so fast that their nervous system is trying to figure out where their body is in space.

So in those time periods, I really try to emphasize if they’re really young, they’re not going to really be doing any sort of structured program. You just advocate, hey, go play golf, go play basketball, football. I mean, it drives parents crazy because they’re like, oh my God, he wants to play like five different sports all in a week. I go, that’s awesome because you’re exposing the nervous system to all different types of patterns of movement. So if you break it down scientifically, you’re exposing them to sagittal plane movements, transverse plane, frontal plane. And you want to do that stop and go. Eccentric, isometric, all these different types of movement patterns because that ultimately trains the nervous system.

Evelyne Lambrecht: And when you said you train them fast, you mean literally correct?

Robert Yang: Correct. So for example, I had a junior program that I ran for about two years. And so I would have several athletes and they were a wide variety of athletes. So they were amateur surfers. And then you had even dressage riders or horse jumpers, two basketball players and baseball players. And what I try to do with them, I didn’t overload them. You always want to emphasize proper technique. So if technique ever breaks down, you stop them before it breaks down. But if they can do it in proper technique, you always train them as fast as possible.

So I just tell them, when we’re doing this rotational med ball exercise and they’re slamming into the wall, I tell them, I want you to try to throw the ball through the wall. Don’t just gently push it. I want you to go as fast as you can, because what you’re trying to do is during these really, important times of growth, you also are trying to upload software into their brain. And those are motor patterns.

So we have slow twitch and we have fast twitch muscle fibers. So type one and then type IIx, IIB fibers depending on the literature you’re reading. And so what we’re trying to do is in order to make our kids as athletic as possible, we want to try to get them to access these higher threshold motor units. These type IIx fibers. The only way you can do that is to actually have to do it.

So in the context of, let’s say, a baseball player, it’s the old adage of okay, swing for the fence. So swing as hard as you can. Or it’s a young golfer. Okay, I want you to try to hit this ball a mile down the road, because what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to teach a nervous system that swinging hard and fast is normal. And if you never teach the kid to do that, or you never teach him to run as fast as he can or jump as high as they can, you’re not taking the so-called governor off the nervous system, because ultimately your body has a technical flex is when you’re trying to protect your body. So what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to coax a nervous system to say, hey, this is actually normal, to swing really hard, run really fast, or jump really high.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Very interesting. So do you think that some professional athletes at the top of their game are the exception? If they kind of specialized in that one sport their entire lives?

Robert Yang: I mean, if you look at, for example, the top 1% in track and field, you obviously have some genetics involved in terms of your fiber makeup. So the top, like the Usain Bolt and those types of athletes, those are, you’re literally almost born genetically to have those. But I think what people can get it from some of this information we’re talking about is you really want to try to tap into the nervous system.

So I think one of the observations anecdotally, that we’re making with a lot of these athletes. So for example, with a lot of the guys that are long drive champions. So these guys, their job, their professional job is to hit the ball as fast as they can. And you’ll find a lot of these different types of athletes. One, they played a lot of different other sports, explosive sports. They played hockey or they played baseball. And some of my colleagues, they find that, sometimes they actually are switch hitters. So, for example, you’ll find some other really good athletes that are very powerful, and they swing the golf club righty, but they pitched lefty, or they played hockey lefty. Or they played tennis probably left sided. So it’s sort of the opposite side training concept that we have.

But I think the biggest thing that people can get, from this conversation is when the kids are young, really exposed to lots of different types of sports, because it really accesses different parts of their nervous system and allow them to swing for the fence, allow them to hit the ball out of bounds. It’s okay. You can always hone back in technique and get them to hit the ball straight later in life. That’s always easy to do, but you don’t ever get these windows of opportunity of uploading this software into your brain.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Very interesting. So during those growth spurt phases, nutritionally, what are you focusing on versus maybe other times?

Robert Yang: So I mean, I always sound repetitive when I say this, but it has to start with a foundation of hydration. So when I wrote my book Hole in One Nutrition, I really wanted to simplify nutrition. I didn’t want to make things too complicated. And so I said, first, we have to make sure that you have a foundation of water hydration. One of the biggest things that we have an issue with, and it’s juniors too, or older athletes or older clients. Is that the ability for focused attention or just cognition? It decreases. And there’s clear literature that as little as .72% loss of your body weight in water affects your ability for focused attention. So that’s a massive problem. And that’s in the context of body weight. If you’re 150 pounds, that’s literally 1 pound loss of water.

And right now we’re in June. And as we’re going to the summer months, kids are easily losing several pounds of water when they’re playing sports or throughout the day. And they’re not hydrating enough with water and the main electrolyte sodium. So they’re actually compromising their ability for focused attention during their sport or for school and focus, concentration, that sort of thing. So, as basic as hydration, water is really critical for that base and foundation for a lot of our young athletes to perform at a more efficient, optimal rate.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. I feel like now you see kids at school and everyone, like, even in elementary school, is carrying their Stanley’s and HydroFlasks, and I don’t remember even having water, till, I don’t know, maybe after college, I just never drank water. I might have functioned better.

Robert Yang: Yeah. I mean, but to add upon that, one of the dysfunctions that I do see, within the industry is that people are, you know, proudly carry around their Stanley Cup or their gallon jug. The bigger it is, the better. But they’re not paying attention to the main electrolyte with sodium. So that’s a major issue because now what potentially can happen is you’re shifting yourself into more of a hyponatremia state. So obviously if someone checks their blood panel they check the CMP. You can look at sodium function ranges between 135 and 142. So if they’re starting to get to 136, 135, 134, they’re tending and treading towards that hyponatremia state.

And you classically see that with kids that are cramping, they’ve got muscle twitches on their triceps, their quad or their eye is twitching all the time. Obviously you see that with adults, as well. So that’s just a lack of the main electrolyte sodium.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Do you have some kind of formula you use with your athletes? I’m sure it depends on the weather and everything else. But like the amount of sodium and the amount of activity at the very beginning, what I normally tell people is, for example, this is a 16 ounce, jar. So for every 16 ounces to a liter, I just have them put one pinch of a Celtic seesaw or like a Redmond salt into their water. As we start to get into some of the athletes or some of the athletes that are practicing for 4 to 5, six hours a day, then I will target the sodium and be quite aggressive with the sodium intake. So sometimes I’ll have them consume a teaspoon or a half a teaspoon to a teaspoon before they go train.

And it’s a quite effective dose for having an ergogenic effect for their training sessions. But also at the end of the day, if they’re playing golf, let’s say, for five hours and they’re losing anywhere from 1 to 3 pounds. You have to replace the sodium because people forget that if you lick your sweat, it’s salty because you’re losing water, but you’re also losing salt when you’re sweating. So you have to replace both, not just one.

Evelyne Lambrecht: What about the potassium? I mean, I’m a fan of using electrolyte packets. I don’t usually use just salt because I feel like I’m getting enough in my food, but also that’s me. I’m not an athlete.

Robert Yang: So I mean, obviously potassium does matter to a certain degree. But what I find and I mean, you just look at the some of the studies where they’ve actually collected the sweat from subjects, and 99% of the loss of electrons is sodium, and it’s even more critical when we’re talking about this with, it doesn’t matter if you’re a young athlete or if you’re older, if you have blood pressure that’s low. So 120 over 80 is normal. But oftentimes I see a lot of females that are like, 95 over 65. That’s way too low. It’s not talked about enough in the industry. They’re always concerned about being above 120 over 80.

But being too low is also a problem as well, because now you’re not getting the hyper or the perfusion to other parts of your body, like your brain and your gut or your phalanges, and your metatarsals, your basically your hands or feet. So people like that with low blood pressure. They’re constantly cold even though it’s warm out. So you have to get enough sodium in there first to figure out, okay, how much does that impact someone’s blood pressure. And oftentimes things like dizziness nauseous, less, those type thing, they go away, once you start to get the right amount of salt within their system.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. Excellent points. Thank you. I want to go back to the question about the nutrition during the growth spurts. So first part was hydration. What’s next?

Robert Yang: Yeah. Hydration would be the first thing. And then, protein would be the next one because, most kids don’t eat enough protein. Now because they’re young, they can kind of get away with it in a sense that they’re like a sponge, they are absorbing nutrients because they probably have the right amount of acids and enzymes.

But their protein intake is not nearly enough. And we will see this quite a bit with the national team where the national team, the earliest is like 14 or so and then they all the way work up to 18. And then when they’re at the elite amateur level, that’s more 19 and above.

But what you’ll see is because these golfers, they’re practicing from anywhere from, I would say, 4 to 6 hours a day, and then they also train three times a week because they’re trying to increase their distance off the tee. A lot of these kids are in a very catabolic state. And obviously then on top of that, they’re just going through their normal growth process. So the amount of protein that these kids need, it really needs to be emphasized.

Evelyne Lambrecht: I want to take more into the protein amounts specifically because I know it’s controversial right now in a sense. Right. Or everybody’s talking about how we need more protein. Can you talk more about what your thoughts are on general protein requirements, what you recommend, like per gram per either kilogram or pound of body weight in athletes and then also going back to the growth spurt part, do you recommend increasing the amount during that time?

Robert Yang: Yeah. So I would say for general population I would say probably .75g of protein per pound of body weight. So just to do the math really easy, if you weigh 100 pound, that’s 75g of protein per day. Whereas if they’re in a growth phase or they just have heavy, heavy training. Then I would say gram per pound of body weight would probably be ideal down the road.

Now I have a different thought process to this, because whenever I’m working with a client or an athlete, I have them journal their food for seven days before they see me. If they don’t do that, then I’m not going to see them. So I use an app where they just basically have their phone and everybody has their phone with them 24/7.

So they just take a picture of their food and then they post it to their journal. And I can see that from Monday through Sunday. The reason why I do that, in terms of the protein context, is because if a particular person weighs 100 pounds, but they’re only eating, 50g of protein roughly in the day, then I’m not going to make them go 100g right away.

It’s sort of the same, concept of if someone does an exercise, well, it doesn’t make sense to make them do CrossFit twice a day for every day of the week. If they just walked and they did maybe 20 minutes of weight training twice a week, they’re going to progress. So in the same way, it just makes sense to go for maybe 50g. Okay, let’s go to 75g for the day. And they’re going to be like, oh wow, I feel like my energy’s a little bit better. I’m not as sore after my training sessions, so eventually we’ll probably get to that. But it’s also a process.

Just last night, I just had a webinar talking about nutrition to the USNGP and, some of the kids, unfortunately, they’re just stuck in peanut butter jelly sandwiches during the course. That’s their main source of fuel. And I’m trying to educate the families, the mom, dad, the coaches that PBJ yeah, I think the best thing is maybe some peanut butter, which is some fat, maybe a little bit of protein, but they think that’s a lot of protein, but it’s not significant amounts to facilitate neurotransmitter production and recovery and all the good stuff that we would get out of it, increase protein intake.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. And people can only eat so much cottage cheese a day, right? I think the cottage cheese craze is out of control. I don’t love cottage cheese, so I don’t think it should be made into bread and whatever else people are doing with cottage cheese these days. Do you recommend supplemental protein to your athletes and clients?

Robert Yang: Yeah, I do, I love the PurePaleo, the beef protein from Designs for Health. That’s something that I will utilize all the time. I find that there’s so many people that have an issue with whey protein. I know it’s the protein in terms of the ergogenic A with the big A’s and that sort of thing, but it just creates too much gastric distress in terms of gas, bloating, farting, even skin conditions. So if they can tolerate it, then yes. I’ll recommend that. But even then, I try to get my people to try to rotate their proteins if they can. So if they can do the beef based, do that one day and do a whey another day, and then do maybe a plant based another day and then go back to the beef that way just sort of minimizes food sensitivities over time.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. Great point. Anything else you want to add on the foundational nutrition piece aside from hydration, protein?

Robert Yang: One of the principles that I came up for my book in terms of blood sugar stability, is your BFF. So your best friend forever is PFF when it comes to blood sugar control. And so PFF just simply stands for protein, fat and fiber.

So individually, on their own, they really just flat line blood sugar. But if you combine all three it gives you a one plus one equals four effect. So you get a very much a synergistic effect when you add them together. And that’s just a starting point. Obviously if you have someone that really needs to gain weight, they’re not gaining weight. Then at that point, obviously you have to strategically add in some carbohydrates, some blood glucose, elevating carbs, to facilitate recovery at the appropriate times. But it’s a good foundation for people to work off of. And then they can kind of tweak it from there depending on what their goals are.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Great. And you are a specialist in gut health. That’s one of your main things that you’re passionate about. So I think we often assume that athletes are all at the top of their game. Right? And they don’t have like health issues because they have a whole team. But GI issues are incredibly common in athletes. So I’m curious, do you approach them any differently than you would just a regular client who’s not an athlete when it comes to the GI picture?

Robert Yang: I approach, in terms of testing. So I get a thorough health history. But also the lab testing is virtually the same. I will look at everything from obviously ICMP, CBC, but I also want to extensively look at leaky gut markers as well as, if there’s anemia iron involved, because obviously, if there’s some gut underlying, areas of gut inflammation, then that could lead to issues with anemia.

And then also looking at specific inflammation markers like hs-CRP, homocysteine, and then looking at obviously their thyroid as well as their sex hormones. And in many cases you can get a lot of clues too if an athlete is struggling with some GI issues, obviously they would come to you. And I had some very elite athletes come to me with, hey, Rob, I heard you helped so and so with gut stuff. I really need your help because I’m having diarrhea several times throughout the day. Like, I don’t know what’s going on, that kind of thing. So if that’s the case and it’s chronic, and obviously at that point, and moving forward, you’re concerned about malabsorption, for some of these athletes, whether they’re athlete or non athlete. So that becomes a real big concern.

And the way I try to explain it, let’s say for example, we have someone who comes and they don’t really have any overt GI symptoms clinically. But the way I explain it to them is that the gut is like an octopus. So obviously octopus has eight arms and so the octopus could be eating a or grabbing a fish over here, over here it can be playing with a can. Maybe another arm could be grabbing a lobster. I don’t know what else, but in the same fashion, the gut microbiome via that gut brain axis, these different accesses can affect many different parts of our physiology. And we know that through research and speaking to the choir, when it comes to that.

But, you know, for example, I had one person who had really bad eczema to the point where they would wake up bleeding because they’re itching their skin when they’re sleeping, and they just don’t realize it. And this person had some major gut things going on. Obviously there’s some food sensitivities involved. So obviously there’s a gut skin axis. And then we also had the gut brain axis, gut liver axis. You know, the list goes on. And so I think that’s where I can explain to them where the gut really impacts them.

And I think really what it helps, it hits home to the athletes is regards to inflammation. So obviously I’m over here and you’re over there. So there’s a border between us, the computer screen, let’s say. So obviously that would be like your intestinal lining. So in the context of leaky gut it should be a closed border. It shouldn’t be open. But when it’s irritated it gets open like this. And then now what happens is whatever is happening over here, whether I’m eating McDonald’s or organic food or I’m taking Toradol or anti-inflammatories that go straight into the bloodstream where you are in your sacred territory, so that the only thing that should be going to where you are is things like amino acids and glucose and fatty acids.

So that’s where alarm bells, whistles go off. You get this increase in the proinflammatory cytokines like TNF alpha IL-six. And now you have inflammation running amok. And wherever there’s a little spark, maybe they’re struggling with a golfer’s elbow or tennis elbow. Or maybe there’s some shoulder stuff going on. It only promotes that inflammation and doesn’t allow that particular musculoskeletal structure to heal.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Since you brought up the anti-inflammatories, I want to touch on the NSAIDs because they are used pretty ubiquitously, right. And they’re prescribed by doctors in addition to other medications. So can you speak to how you handle that when you’re working with someone?

Robert Yang: Yes. So, at the elite level, and we’re talking about obviously some professional athletes, as well as even on the collegiate ranks. And I always tell my athletes, I’m here to help you as much as I can to the best of my ability. So there’s never any judgment on my end because people always approach me, say, oh, Rob, you’re anti-antibiotic or you’re anti NSAID and I say no, they can you know they’re helpful if they’re needed.

But what’s happening with some of the athletes are they’re in sort of a rock and a hard place so to speak, because one, you might have a young guy who’s triple A, he’s a pitcher, and he really has to finish out the season so that he can get signed a contract to the majors. Well, he might be suffering from some elbow inflammation or maybe some shoulder issues. So he’ll take an anti-inflammatory, a very powerful one, Toradol or whatever one they choose to give him so he can finish out the season. So I say, look, don’t hide it from me. Just say, hey, Rob, I’m going to just bite the bullet. I’m going to take this because I got to finish the things I’m doing really well. I think I’m going to sign a five-year deal.

I said, that’s fine. Just let me know so that I can give you some different nutrients to help counteract those effects. Because we know with all these anti-inflammatories, one, there’s a gut inflammatory effect, a gut irritation, but also there’s undue stress on the liver as well as the kidney. So these guys are taken on a daily basis, sometimes several times throughout the day. So in that context, I’ll say, look, I want you to take these nutrients to counteract some of these effects moving forward.

Evelyne Lambrecht: What are some of the nutrients you’re referring to?

Robert Yang: So I would say glutamine would be one that would be very, very helpful. Obviously it’s very helpful for feeding the mucosal cells. But it has very much of a protective effect on the gut lining. And I don’t think you can be very conservative on doses, especially when some of these athletes are taking powerful anti-inflammatories on a daily basis.

So I will go from anywhere from probably five grams at the minimum three times a day to possibly 10 to 12g three times a day, if not higher than that. Sometimes obviously, the gut uses a tremendous amount of glutamine, so it doesn’t barely any of it makes it to the bloodstream for other things. So that’s where it can have a really good protective effect for some of these guys.

Evelyne Lambrecht: And then I’m sure you’re also considering nutrient depletions, right?

Robert Yang: Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So, normally the blood work typically shows up where things like vitamin D are still low. So, I think on the vitamin D aspect of things, it’s still not really addressed because I constantly see people with low vitamin D, so there’s a lot of talk about it, but no one’s actually doing anything about it, with supplementation or digestibility. And then the other ones are folate and B12. And, so those are the things that tend to be quite low, in a lot of these, different, athletes.

Evelyne Lambrecht: I want to talk a little bit more about lab panels. So you mentioned some of the blood markers and then the GI, the stool test or anything else that you’re regularly running with your clients.

Robert Yang: Yes. So I will, run an extensive anemia panel, so most people will run maybe a ferritin, and then they run a fasting iron, and then they’ll look at red blood cells, hemoglobin, hematocrit. But I think it needs to be more in more detail because you can miss some things. So obviously saturation is really important to look at.

And one of the big factors besides being low on iron is if people have too much iron. And that’s really an issue. So that’s why I always look at ferritin. So if it’s above 100 I’m going okay. What’s going on? Is there too much storage iron or is there some acute phase reactant going on and then looking at tissue saturation. So that’s about 35%. And I’m going okay what’s going on. Why are you storing too much iron? Or if there’s too much iron circulating.

Because the way I explain to people is that, obviously most people know about anemia, like, oh yeah, too little iron. And obviously for our female athletes that are maybe having heavy menstrual cycles, that’s always something you have to look at. But I tell my athletes and my older clients that are struggling with musculoskeletal issues is that if you have too much iron, it’s like living on the coast where I’m at, I have my truck and I’m at the beach almost every single day. It’s like rusting out your bumper and your whole chassis of your car because you have too much iron in your system. So it’s rusting our tissues.

And that needs to always be looked at, even for females as they obviously finish or cycle. Older athletes, they do, and they can be predisposed to that. So it’s something that needs to be addressed. But it’s missed quite a bit because they’re not running all the markers consistently. So that’s why even though I may be only looking at someone’s DHEA for this next blood work, I’m looking at everything.

So I want to know, okay, where anemia is, where the inflammation markers are. So I can make some comparisons from six months ago to now and to see, okay, what are the changes and what do we need to go from here or fine-tune some things moving forward.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up. We actually did a two part episode on hemochromatosis a few months ago, and I’ve always had a personal interest in it with having the genetics for it, but we talked extensively in those episodes about all of the markers to look at. And it is a problem. And we know that iron deficiency anemia is a problem, but so too much. So it’s a fine, fine balance.

Robert Yang: Yeah, definitely.

Evelyne Lambrecht: I want to talk a little more nutrition strategy and supplements. And I’d love to hear about some of your go-to nutrients pre-workout, intro workout and post-workout. And I know that’s such a general question because you’re working with so many different sports and different ages and different seasons of training, but any kind of general advice you can share?

Robert Yang: Yes. I’ve been using amino acids since about 1998 in high dosages. I learned about this a long time ago for one of my mentors, Doctor Eric Serrano. And, you know, it’s in nutrition, fitness. It’s sort of like fashion. Things go in cycles. So obviously everybody’s all about, I think colostrum six months ago.

And then like right now the big thing is creatine. I used creatine for the first time in 1994. I remember when EAS first came out with it, Anthony Almada, who was the cofounder or founder of EAS. He’s a friend of mine. And I just chuckle because it’s just it’s like fashion, you know, like bell-bottoms are in this month and then skinny jeans will be in the next month.

But I think, where you can utilize amino acids, pre intra is where I really like to use it is you would use amino acids, especially for morning time. So if you have someone that trains early in the morning and they want, they just are not going to eat a big breakfast or do not eat anything at all to train an empty stomach. I don’t have a problem with that, but I think that’s where amino acids can be really helpful, because if they wake up at 6 a.m., you know, they’re drinking and, their amino acids at 6:30, they’re at the gym at 7. If you take a product with a combination of, and most EAA. So essential amino acid products have also been in it. I try to double them up actually. But if they start consuming that maybe 15 minutes before they get to the gym, as they’re driving within about 15 or 20 minutes. Because these amino acids are not peptides, not bound together. They’re broken in the individual pieces. We know through research you get super physiological doses in about 15, 20 minutes.

So if that’s circulating around in your blood, one, your muscles can use it as a fuel source. So I find that one, the work capacity goes up. They’re able to push a little harder during their sessions. And then two, you’re actually increasing more muscle protein synthesis. So in the grand scheme, it they, thinks, is it going to make you put on 5 pounds a muscle in a month? No, but it’s going to help you in terms of the recovery process. And then also with muscle soreness.

And so, one of the things that I’ve always tried to, sort of, fast track is recovery. And a classic example is the elite golfers. And so if you don’t know about golfers in general, they’re always after distance. So they’re like, if I can hit the ball ten yards further, just tell me what I have to do. I’ll do it, Rob. But part of that process is they have to train in the gym. So if they’re on a program with their strength and conditioning coach on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, there’s a certain amount of stress put on their muscular system. Whatever their training program may be, they might be doing a five by five, or they’re may be doing four sets of, triples, whatever that is. To get the training effect. Now, one of the consequences is they get sore. And so some of my players, they’re like, Rob, I just I got wrecked in the gym and I just cannot swing the club or just feels uncomfortable, my swing affects my touch.

So that’s where amino acids can be very, very important for reducing muscle soreness. So I’ve even had some of my players go, oh my gosh, I don’t know what that you gave me Rob, but I don’t have any muscle soreness at all. But the key thing with amino acids, you have to take a large amount of them. So you know, a couple capsules or one scoop of five grams may not do very much unless you’re quite deficient. So normally at the low end, I like people to start with about .12 grams of amino acids times their body weight. And they start sipping that before they get to the gym, and then they slip it throughout the round like they’re drinking water, hydrating. If there’s anything left over, they just consume that right away. And that’s very, very helpful for, reducing, the muscle soreness.

And then there are other reasons why I use that, but I don’t know if we have want to get into that, in terms of time wise. But we can talk about that maybe another time.

Evelyne Lambrecht: I’m curious about creatine, since it came up. If I’m not mistaken, there have been different studies on optimal timing, and I think we’ve seen some mixed results. Is that right?

Robert Yang: Yeah, I think there’s a little bit of mixed results. I’ve always advocated as much as possible if you can take creatine post-exercise. I think there is a benefit to that because you get somewhat of a glycogen depletion depending on what type of training program you just did.

But your body is it is in a state of where it can absorb it a bit better. I think one of the big problems with creatine, though, is the side effects that people get. And the main one is the GI side effects. So, intestinal hurry, as they say, in Europe. So obviously diarrhea is part of the problem. So I find that you have to hydrate enough for that. And that’s where it comes down to that base foundation of hydration of my recommendation is half your body mass as water. Because one of the mechanisms by which creatine is working is to shuttle water inside the muscle tissue. But if you don’t have the raw ingredient for water, then you’re not going to have that proper shuttling. But I also think it helps the assimilation so that people get let’s just GI distress if they have the right amount of water.

Evelyne Lambrecht: And I do hear that for those people who get the GI distress, which I don’t hear it that much. But you work with a lot more athletes, but that once they increase their water intake, that after like a week or so, you know, they don’t have that issue anymore.

Robert Yang: Yeah. I mean, I think five grams probably it’s less likelihood of that now that I think about it. Because, back in the day and night in the early 90s, it was 20g loading or 30g loading for five days. And then and then you go maintenance up half that dose. So in the higher dosages, I think that’s where we would notice some of the GI distress.

So maybe five grams is pretty minimal. But my feeling is that, if someone has a very low animal protein diet, then they’re probably going to get a pretty whopping good effect from creatine. I take creatine, I noticed maybe some very minimal effects because I have a pretty good base foundation of animal proteins.

But somebody who’s been vegan for a while or they’re more plant based, they have a little bit of fish a couple times a week, they’re probably going to go, whoa, I feel a massive effect because they just don’t have creatine from their diet.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Great. Thank you for sharing that. So any other tips, tricks, anything else you want to share on workout timing and different nutrients and or supplements?

Robert Yang: I think when you talk about nutrient timing, intermittent fasting is a big popular concept. And I would say clinically, one of the biggest problems that I see with intermittent fasting, IF and if you don’t know what that is, basically the most popular protocol is to end your dinner at 8:00 and then you would sleep. Obviously, that would be considered a fasting state. And that’s typically you can argue that, and then you skip your breakfast and then you would basically start your first meal or break your fast at noon.

And the timing of exercise and intermittent fasting is not talked about enough. If you’re not able to exercise at that lunch period, time or exercise later, I really recommend, people not do that, because what ends up happening is I had a female, up north in Fresno, and we hadn’t talked for a bit, and she said, Rob, I really need to talk to you. I’m really struggling. And so we started talking. She’s like, I got my strength and the gym is down. You know, my cycle times are really suffering. And I’m like what’s going on? I just went down my checklist of things and making sure that there weren’t any GI things going on, are you drinking, hydrating? And she said I started intermittent fasting.

I go, well, okay, that’s okay, because I consider intermittent fasting a tool. But the problem is she was waking up at five, training from 6 to 7, 7:30, and then she would fast until noon.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Oh gosh.

Robert Yang: So you can imagine you’re waking up one in a dehydrated state. That’s why I recommend people hydrate right away. But you’re also waking up in a more catabolic state because you’ve been fasting for eight hours, you’ve been sleeping. So you’re basically inducing a catabolic process from 7 to 7:30, and then you’re prolonging that catabolic state because she’s not eating because she wants to fast. And so of course she’s getting weaker. She’s losing muscle mass, those kinds of things.

So unless you can time your exercise at lunch period and then break your fast with food, or you’re just going to have to shift your exercise to after work or that kind of thing. That’s where intermittent fasting could really be more of a detriment for people, in terms of their muscle mass loss and strength and performance in the gym or on the field.

Evelyne Lambrecht: I’m actually surprised to hear you say that it can be a tool, because I would think that there is no benefit, especially when you’re training super hard or training for something. Can you tell us a little more about that?

Robert Yang: Yeah. Well, so then that comes into, for example, different types of sports. So if you’re in the sport, of maybe let’s say American football and the schedule like American football, if you’re high school or the games played at night, Friday night, if it’s college Saturday, if it NFL you’re on Sunday sometime. So in that context they pretty much know their schedule almost every day of the week.

But I have some of my PGA guys, LPGA players. You know the men and the women know like Rob I heard about intermittent fasting. I really want to do it because so-and-so said it did this. And I said, well, okay, well that’s great, then I want you to do the finish your dinner at 8 and then you have to break your fast at 12. And then, I mean, I’m just being a little I’m joking a little bit here. But I tell them, let’s do that. So every day I need you to break your fast at 12. And this is what I have a tournament this week. So Thursday I might tee off at 8 and then I’ll have lunch at 12. But then Friday I’m off at one. And then Saturday if I make the cut, then I may tee off again at 11, so I can’t. Like I said, that’s the problem.

So if you’re going to do intermittent fasting and in my opinion, you want to try to keep it in a routine, and that’s what I try to get across. For example, I’m just writing this in part of my book I just shared, is that routine is so important when it comes to gut health, because the problem that I see within the industry, on the medical side of things is that they’re just looking at, oh, Sibo, or it’s H-Pylori or this or that, and those things do matter. But it’s the little things done daily that are going to be the big things when it comes to healing someone’s gut. And so, if someone has a traveling schedule or they’re traveling from East Coast to West Coast and into Europe. Basically, they’re jet-lagged all the time, so their body cannot find a rhythm. So the circadian rhythms are so screwed up.

And one of the main oscillating, sort of trainable oscillators within the body is your meal times. So if you’re doing intermittent fasting one day and regular meals another day, your body’s kind of like, well, what? When do you want me to digest food? And so that’s where routine can be really, really important in the context of healing someone’s gut over time.

And you just need to tell the body, look, this is when I wake up, this is what I eat. And then this is when I exercise and this is when I go to bed and your realize, hey, okay, I’m good with that. I’m easy with that.

Evelyne Lambrecht: So do you actually ever recommend it, can it ever be helpful? Or is it only when somebody comes to you and they say they want to do it, and then you say, okay, we’ll do it this way.

Robert Yang: Yeah. I mean, I’ll tell you my personal experience. I’ve been playing around with intermittent fasting since 2010. One of my colleagues, we were speaking at a conference, John Berardi.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Oh, yeah! Precision Nutrition. I trained with him a long time ago.

Robert Yang: Yeah, so he’s a six meal a day guy. So we were training at Gold. I was like, John, what are you doing? And he’s like, what do you do Rob? And he’s like, I’m fasting. And I’m like for just a detox. He goes, no, I’m fasting every day for the last six months. I’m like, what? So anyway, that got me intrigued because Rob, you should try it. Let me know what you think. So I’ve been playing around since 2010 and like I said before, timing of exercise is important. I don’t recommend it if people have energy issues or they’re suffering from anxiety or mild depression, you’re going to be all over the place. So those are the times where I don’t really recommend it.

I’m starting to go away from it. Just because I’m finding that, for personally, for myself, I’m not able to eat enough food for protein, just for recovery from my training and my surfing and those kinds of things. And then what I’m finding also is that, sometimes it’s affecting someone’s GI tract to the detriment. Now, clinically, I do find some people, they just kind of gravitate towards that because they don’t want to eat because anything they do eat, they’re just feel like they’re six months pregnant. So that doesn’t mean it’s effective. It’s just a bad approach to dealing with their symptomology at that point, at that point. So I tell people, look, okay, let’s just do that. That’s fine. But we definitely need to find the root cause of why you’re getting bloated with every single food that you eat. And obviously there’s some icebergs to determined that are causing that going on. So, yeah, I mean, if anything, it could be a tool if it works for someone. But it’s not for everybody.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Thank you for sharing that. And then so regarding we talk about pre-workout a lot and post workout a lot, but what about intra workout? I mean, I think most people probably don’t need anything if they’re just working out. But if you’re talking about an athlete who’s doing perhaps a longer endurance event or who’s competing the entire day, can you share some strategies when you work with athletes like that?

Robert Yang: Yes. And I would actually disagree somewhat with that. Even if someone was like a 60-year-old, and they just go to the gym to prevent osteoporosis because they’re osteopenia and they’re kind of on the borderline amino acids, which would help a tremendous amount for them, too. But most matter, because one of the things that you’re seeing in the literature is it’s not just about calcium and magnesium and the minerals. You also have to certain amount of protein intake to help facilitate the osteoblasts and those kinds of things in terms of bone remodeling. So I think, other parts of the population could actually drastically benefit.

Evelyne Lambrecht: But then, hold on. So in that person you would say both pre-workout and during workout. So what the idea behind doing it pre and intra is this. So for example, if we just take someone that wakes up at six and then they’re going to train, they’re going to see a trainer from 7 to 8. That’s like very common, with a person I work with. So in that context, a lot of people say, oh, I don’t want to eat because I just feel like I’m going to puke when I go train. So I said, that’s fine. So I want you to go and you’re going to get your canteen or whatever. You’re going to mix up, two scoops of amino acids or sometimes three scoops of 10 to 15g. You’re going to put your salt in there. So at that point I would probably utilize half a teaspoon to a teaspoon. We play around with that. They would shake that up with the appropriate amount of water. And then they’re going into their car, and they’re drinking sipping this. So they get you probably maybe a quarter of it to a third of it before they get to the gym. And at that point it’s circulating in their system. So at that, during the training session for that 60 minutes or that kind of the 45 minutes or so at the meat and potatoes of the workout, they’re actually be able to push harder. And then the benefit is that they’re recovering, by the time they’re driving home, and then they can eat a good breakfast at that time.

So you’re actually already, instigating the recovery process because it’s within the blood at that point and it doesn’t require any digestion. So that’s why it’s ideal in and around whether it’s weight training or running or whatever their activity is.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Okay. And I also want to talk about carbs a bit, because all of our conversations these days are around protein. We know that carbs are also very important, and I haven’t, gosh, the last time I took a sports nutrition class was in 2020, so I haven’t really kept up. But I know when I used to do longer bike rides like 50 miles was the max, but regular ones were like 30 to 40. But I needed my carbs, during and after. And I’m curious now, what is the recommendation for post-workout meals regarding like a ratio of protein, carbs, etc.?

Robert Yang: Unless it’s a really elite, endurance athlete. Then, obviously I’m going to make a specific recommendation in terms of, okay, you need to do about 45g of carbs, in your drink as you go on your century ride, whatever their training regiment would be. But in general, I would just try to, one is to get carbohydrates after you train. So especially with weight training because, It’s not only just replacement of glycogen because that’s always the talk about, oh, you need to replete your glycogen. Well, you’re not going to completely deplete glycogen. It’s very difficult to do that unless you’re going to be doing hours upon hours of training. But it has a little bit of effect of that.

But the reason why I recommend carbohydrates post-exercise is the change in the hormonal milieu. So in strength training in general, depending on what the intensity and the volume is like. So basically we’re talking about the reps and the weight that you’re performing and how many sets you’re performing overall. Normally as you start training, obviously the stress hormone cortisol goes up because the stress. But if the loads are heavy enough, you also get a concomitant release of testosterone. Male or female. Now obviously absolute amounts is probably going to be higher in a male and female. But you do get a rise.

Now as you finish the training session, one of the things that you want to do is you want to keep the testosterone level higher, but you want to drop the cortisol because remember, the cortisol, as I talked about that, that woman who is doing intermittent fasting in the morning and not eating for five hours, the cortisol is the catabolic hormone. So we want to drop that. So that’s where carbohydrates can really help to drop the cortisol levels as insulin comes up. And that’s what was not happening with that particular person that was doing intermittent fasting.

So I think that’s where carbohydrates can really help with the recovery aspect on the hormonal front. And that’s what’s not talked about. Everybody’s obsessed about well, that doesn’t cause, you know, glycogen depletion. And as always, you eat carbs, 2 or 3 hours later, then that’s going to help. Well, it does help. But you also want to get that hormonal change as soon as possible. So that’s where the carbohydrate can be effective.

And sometimes I say sandwich your carbohydrate before and after a training session. So sometimes people feel like, oh, if I have some carbohydrate in my prior meal to my training session, I feel like I definitely have a better work capacity. And some people I find they’re like, Rob, I don’t notice any difference. And some people are just frank, like, I feel worse when I have carbs before I train, so I just train protein fats before I train, and I don’t do anything else other than that.

So in general, I would say that’s usually my recommendation where we do carbohydrates definitely post. And then, if I have a young athlete who is just losing weight all the time, then of course we’re probably going to get some type of carbohydrate all throughout the day. Just because, it’s a fine line of walking if they have too much protein and fat, then at that point they’re full all the time. They’re actually full. So at that point, those type of athletes we need to increase your carb diet so we can increase your appetite where, general population clients we’re dealing with. I’m just craving sugar all the time. You know, I’m craving carbs all the time. So we need to help with the satiety point. So that’s where I would recommend more PFF for the most part.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah, it seems to me like the general population overeat carbs, but I sort of feel like in our industry, like in our bubble, I think people are probably like carb phobic again, you know?

Robert Yang: Yeah, I think it’s kind of hiding a little bit of a middle road. But I, I always go back to, well, what’s your activity level? If you’re an attorney and you’re sitting for 12 hours a day and you only train twice a week with a trainer, you don’t need that many carbohydrates, especially if you’re on the overweight side of things in general.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Thank you for sharing that hormonal aspect to it. So we talked about a lot of basic, I guess, quote unquote basic nutrients. I know you also use a lot of GI nutrients with your patients, because that’s a big focus for you. What about things like adaptogens or, aside from the basics, what are you using with your athletes?

Robert Yang: Well, when you talk about adaptogens, again, I try to go to more of the foundational, basic things versus ashwagandha and all these other, like, American or Korean ginseng. And one of the main ones that I don’t think is emphasized enough is the essential fatty acids. So obviously we’re talking about Omega-3’s. So the docosahexaenoic acid, DHEA for short and eicosapentaenoic acid, EPA. And it’s interesting because we have, at the tip of our finger social media of just the extremes, right. We have vegan and carnivore. And then you also have people that say, oh, you need to use fish oils. And then you have people that know it’s going to cause rancidity and it’s going to cause inflammation. And these people say, no, it causes an anti-inflammatory effect.

And if you look at just the amount of data on the benefits of fish oil, it’s just overwhelming. There’s only maybe a few different studies where, oh, there’s a possibility of rancidity in the body or increasing oxidation in the body. And that’s a whole other story.

But, that’s where I think fish oils can be a great benefit. And so the way I think about it and I’ve always, I’m looking at my computer screen, I have my whole desktop is just PDF, PDF, PDF of all these different articles. And with fish oils when we’re talking about the adaptogenic effect is that fish oils do increase the stress resiliency in people at the brain level, at the HPA axis. So that’s where I feel like with Omega-3’s, it’s really something that’s not emphasized where people could really take benefit.

And then you can like off the top of my head, I came across research that Omega-3’s help with the reduction of H. Pylori. So if I get someone on a GI map and they test positive in H. Pylori, well, what we know about H. Pylori? It causes massive inflammation, decreases your HDL production in your stomach. So you have to deal with that. But also, you have to try to put the fire out, so to speak, in terms of inflammation. And so that’s where the Omega-3 index comes into play on the lab work.

Evelyne Lambrecht: I was going to ask you.

Robert Yang: So that’s why I look at DHEPA I look at the AA/EPA ratio, the average chronic acid EPA ratio. Because then at that point I can go, hey, it looks like you haven’t been taking fish oil. Well, yeah, Rob. I kind of been forgetting the morning one. I just take it at night, and I see it all the time. And I tell people, you don’t have to buy the fish or something that I recommend. Okay? You can get it through your fish, but I tell them you got to eat 1 to 2 cans of sardines or herring or mackerel or salmon every day. And then they’re like, oh, well, I think it’s easier to take the supplement.

So I mean, I know some people that they, they need a can of sardine almost every day. I’m like, okay, then you might not need even take fish oil. But most people aren’t willing to do that. So that’s where the supplementation really comes into play. And then you can really fiddle around with things like the ratio of DHEA and EPA and those kinds of things.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah, I love sardines. What number do you like to see for the Omega-3 index?

Robert Yang: I shoot for about 10% and above. Okay. So 10 to 12%. But more specifically, for the DHA, I wanted about ten. Okay. And EPA on the one, I want it about two. So if we’re not getting there and they’re taking, let’s say three capsules official twice a day. So basically about three grams a day, then I’m thinking, maybe there’s something in absorption that’s an issue, right? So, you look at GI map and sometimes their static rate level is above like 50%. So then I’m going okay we got to go back and reassess what’s going on with your GI. And maybe you need some bile acid that kind of thing.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. And there are liquid fish oils that are very high dose as well. Three grams in a teaspoon. A little easier.

Robert Yang: Yes, it’s true.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Any other thoughts on that before I move on to our final topic?

Robert Yang: I think that’s where I keep going back to the gut. And I’m not saying everything stems from the gut, but one thing that I try to explain to people in regards to some of the groups of clients that say, oh, my adrenals are shot, and I’m adrenal fatigue. And obviously we can talk about that and the semantics of the name fatigue.

But I tell people that there’s one thing about mental, emotional stress or physical stress. So you’re an attorney and they’re working, you know, 16 hour days, and they’re also training for a marathon. So those are stressors. But at least when they go to bed, they’re getting rest and they’re not consciously thinking about those things. So they actually can get some rest.

But the gut is different because your gut is always being regulated by your body. So it’s trying to create that homeostatic balance. But when you go to bed, if you have an overgrowth, whether it’s a microorganism of H. Pylori or a klebsiella, or if it’s a system illness or if it’s Candida overgrowth, when you see you sleeping and resting, your body’s trying to deal with that overgrowth.

And so what ends up happening is your sleep is not restful. Sleep. And so that’s why I tell people, look, if you’re trying to balance out your adrenals or your progesterone, your estrogen, or for a guy, you know, getting the testosterone levels up, if you have these underlying gut things going on, it’s like you’re wasting your cortisol. You’re wasting all your stress hormones to deal with the gut issues. But if you deal with the gut issues, a lot of that other stuff falls away.

Evelyne Lambrecht: That’s such a great point, and I’m glad you brought that up. The last thing I want to talk about with you is traumatic brain injuries. So I know this is very common, unfortunately. So I’m curious what nutrients and protocols do you consider essential in supporting athletes who’ve had a TBI, either recent or in the past?

Robert Yang: Yes. It’s a very important topic. And we talked about this earlier, in terms of TBI, most people, and I’ll say, have you had any falls or anything like that? And, the paperwork when I’m working with a client and they got no concussions or anything like that, and I tell people it doesn’t have to be a concussion. So technically, a TBI is a jostling of your brain inside your skull. So when you think of it that way, you think about, well, six months ago, someone rear ended me and like, my neck was sore or for me, if I’m surfing, I hit the sand. I’m like, oh my gosh, I feel like I’ve got my head wrong.

Those are small TBIs. So you can imagine with young athletes that are slamming into each other with their helmets or on ice hockey or whatever they’re doing. That’s a lot of TBIs that are going on. And so there’s that whole concept of gut on fire, brain on fire, brain on fire, gut on fire. And so at one point or another, especially with the elite athletes, that are constantly getting head trauma you have to address your gut at one point, and it needs to be addressed.

Sometimes they’re symptomatic, so they have constipation or they have diarrhea or they kind of, it might be IBS mixed kind of thing. But, for a lot of these different athletes or even people that they play intramural football or whatever else contact sport. They do end up having some GI things going on, or they start to get brain fog and they get short term memory issues, those kinds of things. So it definitely needs to be addressed.

Evelyne Lambrecht: And what are some of the nutrients that you most commonly use for TBI?

Robert Yang: So especially if they’re symptomatic in regards to their GI tract, then at that point, I will use things like short chain fatty acids. So obviously we know about probiotics. And then we talk about prebiotics. And more of the literature is coming up about the post biotics. And so, there’s a fair bit of research, obviously, on the benefits of short chain fatty acids and dealing with brain inflammation and so forth.

And then it’s going back to things like putting out the fire. So that’s where the fish oil has come into play to douse out the inflammation, to just try to calm the system down at that point. And obviously, if seafood sensitivities are involved and that’s something that may need to be taken out so that you can bring down the inflammatory response or the body.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. It’s interesting you mentioned that post biotics, the butyrate. I think I’ve heard this before. One of my friends just published a paper on butyrate and its effect on like circadian rhythm. So I feel like there’s just so much more coming out about the effects of butyrate, which is really, really interesting.

Robert Yang: So it can be quite powerful. And, even there is some literature on basically being a GLP-1 agonist because obviously there’s just such a popularity of those drugs these days. It’s not just obviously the supplementation, but sometimes with if it’s really bad and there’s a chronic history of TBIs, and brain trauma, and you really have to approach it from a multifactorial approach to look at some of their deficiencies and inflammation.

Evelyne Lambrecht: And so, yeah, and I assume you also use like, anti-inflammatory herbs, maybe phosphatidylcholine, specialized in mediators. Trying to think of anything else?

Robert Yang: Yeah. I mean, in terms of the phosphatidylcholine or phosphate, I typically don’t use those guys. Yeah. I mean, what I’ll, I’ll most likely do with these people is, and this is not talked about enough either, is the structural component. So, earlier in my career, I alluded to the fact that I did a lot of corrective exercise and one of the aspects of your spine you have to be aware of is that you have your cranium and you have the brain stem, and then you have the spinal cord and the spinal cord, it first enters your spine through C1, which is the Atlas. And so oftentimes when you hit your head or if you fall in your tailbone, you had trauma that atlas can get out of alignment. So if you think about guy wires that hold the spinal cord in the center of your spinal cord, in the spinal canal, it’s very obviously a very intricate system.

So if your atlas is off alignment and it can be in over 10,000 permutations because it can be rotated to your left and shifted to your left and anteriorly translated or, so there are many permutations and that can keep your spinal cord. So from a structural point of view, and there are some tests that I do to, to see if the atlas is out of alignment then that needs to be addressed, because that can affect everything from C1, C2, all the way down to your sacrum and even to your feet.

So I’ve actually had people had excessive pronation in their feet and we find their atlas out of alignment. I go to have they corrected, come back and their feet normalized to a couple degrees. So it’s not just, oh, got an internal, you have to rub it where it’s kind of, so there’s a structural component that needs to be addressed as well. And so those are the things that I try to look at. And I obviously have to refer out for that. But we have to address those things moving forward, because if you never get them aligned, then they’re going to continue to have issues moving forward.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah, I’m really glad you brought that up. And it also speaks to the importance of having other practitioners in your referral network, right, for those things that you can’t do.

Robert Yang: Absolutely. Yeah.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Awesome. Well, I’d love to know where can practitioners learn more about you? Well, my website is robertyang.net. If you go to .com, it’s a Korean comedian. So that’s not me. And obviously on the socials. So Robert Yang on Instagram and then Robert Yang Inc on all the other ones, Facebook and X and, and so forth.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Wonderful. All right. I’d love to close with just three of our rapid fire questions that we ask everyone. So first one is what are your three favorite supplements right now for yourself?

Robert Yang: My three supplements, myostatin I talked to you about. I like the flavor, and I like the fact it has a leucine and the creatine in there. So I use that daily in surfing and training. I really am liking the Omega-hypo. I didn’t realize that you had the equal amount of DHA and the EPA, the 800 of each, so that’s really, really good. And then the Pure Paleo, that’s just something that I use daily. It makes us so well and everything. So I really like to use that on a daily basis.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. Usually we just talk about nutrients, so we keep it neutral. But since you mentioned the thing about the essential fatty acids.

Robert Yang: Yeah. Well, that’s why I like that. And obviously, the quality is always good with the DFH. So that’s why I always recommend you guys.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. Since you mentioned it, we have many options for essential fatty acids or fish oils, which I think is really helpful because you can really tailor it to the patient. So whether you’re looking for that equal ratio of EPA, DHEA or looking for more EPA or more DHA or other omegas in there, we have those options.

What are your favorite health practices that keep you resilient and balanced?

Robert Yang: Well, my number one would be exercise. So, I mean, I’ve been weight training since I was probably 12, 13, and so I rarely miss a week unless I may be traveling. And like, I was in mainland Mexico surfing for a week. But it’s just part of my DNA. So that’s something that is just part of who I am. And so I lift on average three times a week, four times a week, typically.

And then I would say one thing that I had to learn the hard way was sleep. I’ve really emphasized sleep over the last ten years, because I used to be that guy of train an hour, go surf for an hour and a half with my boys. And then I’ve got some work to do. So I would, maybe get six hours of sleep a few times a week, maybe, and then I would get sick, just a sore throat. Here it comes. So that’s where I really emphasize sleep, and I just don’t give it lip service to my clients or my athletes that I’m working with. I tell them, look, this has to happen, and I get it. You know, it’s sometimes it’s tough because what you’re really trying to do is change your habit over time. And so, I just make people aware that, when I’m working with them. But I said this has to be dealt with eventually.

And you see that classically in the fitness industry because so many people, that I consult with that are either strength coaches or therapists or whichever they start their day with a client at 5:30, 6 in the morning. Then they work all the way up to, you know, 8:00 at night. But they have a big gap during the day. But eventually I’m telling them, look, you got to start emphasizing your sleep and giving yourself time, enough time to sleep and get your things done in the morning. Otherwise you’re not going to be in the industry for very long, and you got to start taking care of yourself. So, that would be that sort of lifestyle change that I’ve really made over the last couple of years.

And you said three, right?

Evelyne Lambrecht: I just said health practices.

Robert Yang: Oh, health practices.

Evelyne Lambrecht: It’s up to you if you want to share.

Robert Yang: Yeah. And then I would say the third one for me is, I pray daily. And I’m always just thankful for where I’m at, for my family and for my home and for what I can do as a living. It’s amazing that I can do what I’m doing. And, it’s such a cliche, but it really is important to me that I’m helping one person at a time. So I may not be a big social media person or whatever, and that’s okay. But I think it’s really powerful where we can help guide and direct, or at least I can help guide and direct someone and really try to resolve their health issues, one by one. So I think that’s what I’m really grateful for. And being able to do what I do and go surf and enjoy where I’m at and being blessed in San Diego. So I’m really, really appreciative of that.

Evelyne Lambrecht: And what is something you’ve changed your mind about through your years in this field?

Robert Yang: I mean, personally, for me, I would say, in terms of practice, I would say intermittent fasting because I did fast for a long time, maybe I was going through a period where I actually wanted to lose weight, to become a better surfer, because I’m more on the muscular size.

I wanted to be under like 165. But over the years, as I’ve gotten older, I turned 51 this year. So, I’m finding with muscle mass, it’s really actually quite difficult for me to maintain my muscle mass and strength in the gym. So I’ve gone away from intermittent fasting and starting my day with more protein and so forth. To get that kick-started, and I’m noticing that difference. So I think, I mean, if I could get, you know, upwards of 150g, 160g of protein in a little window, maybe I could do it. But it’s too hard to do these days. So that’s where I kind of I’ve kind of shifted away from that.

And with a lot of my older clients, I say, yeah, I think that’s not a good thing for you right now. At least start your day at, you know, 10 a.m. with the meal rather than waiting until 1 or 2:00.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah. I think that’s so hard in our industry and in this age of social media, where everyone gets these like recommendations all the time that are so jumbled and we don’t like nuanced conversations. And so it’s very confusing to people.

Robert Yang: Yeah, no, I get it. I mean, I can only imagine if I wasn’t in this industry with all this information and it’s almost like paralysis by analysis. And so, you know, sometimes I just will tell people, if they’re working with a natural path or another person. I said, you know, it’s great that you’re working. You want to get a perspective, but it doesn’t offend me. Just you can go back to the person, but just listen to one person. And if it doesn’t work out, then come back to me and I can try to help you the best I can. But if you have too many hands in the kitchen, so to speak, you can get real body results.

So I tell people, look, with social media, if you really like this person on strength and conditioning, just listen to that person for a bit and kind of try their techniques and see if it works for you. If it doesn’t, and you can move on to the next person. But I think it’s just so much information, people are just picking and choosing and or what about Dnac or what about using colostrum and those kind of things and then it’s just a cabinet full of all kinds of supplements and toys and things like that, that just they’re not very effective in the long run.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Yeah, it’s interesting, but I think that for clinicians listening, it’s like you can be the authority on your patient.

Robert Yang: Right.

Evelyne Lambrecht: But it is hard. There’s that shiny object syndrome. And we’re we all fall prey to it. Even as practitioners.

Robert Yang: Yeah definitely.

Evelyne Lambrecht: Well, thank you so much. I learned so much from you today. And I’m so grateful that we could do this interview. And you shared awesome clinical pearls. So thank you.

Robert Yang: Oh, you’re welcome it was a pleasure being on.

Evelyne Lambrecht: And thank you for tuning in to Conversations for Health. Check out the show notes for resources from today’s episode. Please share this podcast with your colleagues. Follow us, rate, leave a review wherever you listen or watch. And thank you for designing a well world with us.

Voiceover: This is Conversations For Health with Evelyne Lambrecht, dedicated to engaging discussions with industry experts, exploring evidence based, cutting edge research and practical tips.